When Rutger Hendrik Bregman told Tucker Swanson McNear Carlson that Fox News was deliberately ignoring tax evasion by the ultra-wealthy, he didn’t expect to be called a moron — and he certainly didn’t expect the clip to go viral. But that’s exactly what happened on February 20, 2019, when NowThis News released an unaired, remotely recorded interview between Bregman in Amsterdam and Carlson at Fox News headquarters in New York City. Within days, it surpassed four million views on YouTube. The moment wasn’t just explosive; it was revealing.
What Fox Didn’t Want You to See
The interview took place in February 2019, just a month after Bregman’s appearance at the World Economic Forum Davos. Bregman, then riding high on the success of his book Humankind, brought up a topic rarely discussed on Fox: how the world’s richest avoid taxes through offshore havens. He didn’t mince words: “What the Murdochs want you to do is scapegoat immigrants instead of talking about tax avoidance.” He referenced News Corp Limited, the parent company of Fox Corporation, headquartered in New York City, implying a systemic editorial bias. Carlson, visibly frustrated, responded with a string of expletives — “You’re a moron. Go fuck yourself.” He later apologized for the language but stood by his sentiment, calling his remarks “genuinely heartfelt.”That’s the twist: Carlson didn’t refute the claim. He didn’t argue that tax evasion isn’t a problem. He didn’t offer data on how much revenue the U.S. loses annually to offshore accounts — which, by the way, is an estimated $1 trillion, according to the IRS and the OECD. Instead, he attacked the messenger. And that’s exactly what Bregman predicted.
The Pattern Behind the Outburst
This wasn’t an isolated incident. Since 2017, Bregman has been a vocal critic of media narratives that prioritize fear over facts. In a 2017 interview with Le Devoir in Montreal, he observed that societies are being manipulated into voting for the past — believing it was better — when, in reality, life expectancy, poverty rates, and violence have all declined. He pointed to Trump, Brexit, and the German elections as symptoms of a broader trend: distraction. And media outlets like Fox News, he argued, are complicit.Consider the numbers. A 2018 study by Media Matters found that Fox News mentioned immigration 1,400 times more than tax avoidance by the top 1% between 2016 and 2018. Meanwhile, the Paradise Papers leak in 2017 revealed that over 140,000 offshore accounts were used by billionaires, politicians, and celebrities to hide assets. Yet Fox never ran a dedicated segment on the topic. Not one.
Bregman’s critique cuts deeper than politics — it’s about storytelling. “We’ve been sold a nightmare,” he told The Guardian in 2018, calling himself “the Dutch wunderkind of new ideas.” TED Talks, which named his 2017 talk “Poverty Isn’t a Lack of Character; It’s a Lack of Cash” one of the top 10 of the year, called him “one of Europe’s most prominent young thinkers.” His ideas — universal basic income, shorter workweeks, open borders — aren’t fringe. They’re backed by data from Manitoba’s Mincome experiment, which showed a 9% drop in work hours among low-income groups, not because people stopped working, but because they stopped taking dangerous, low-wage jobs.
The Ripple Effect
The fallout from the Carlson interview wasn’t just about one clip. It sparked a broader conversation about media accountability. Vox Media published a deep dive. The Washington Post ran an op-ed by a former Fox producer who admitted internal pressure to avoid “uncomfortable economic stories.” Even BBC News and Helsingin Sanomat in Helsinki covered the controversy, framing it as a case study in how media shapes public perception.Meanwhile, Bregman didn’t retreat. In May 2025, he released Moral Ambition, a book arguing that professionals should redirect their skills toward solving global crises — climate change, inequality, pandemics — rather than chasing promotions. All proceeds fund The School for Moral Ambition, a Dutch non-profit based in the Netherlands. It’s not charity. It’s strategy. “If you’re smart,” he told Maarten van Rossem on Dutch TV in 2023, “you don’t just climb the ladder. You rebuild the whole building.”
What Comes Next?
The Carlson-Bregman exchange is now a textbook example of how media companies avoid uncomfortable truths. But the public is catching on. TikTok clips of the interview have been shared over 20 million times. College ethics courses now use it to teach media literacy. And in Congress, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez cited the clip during a 2024 hearing on corporate tax avoidance, asking, “If a historian can say this on camera, why can’t our news anchors?”For now, Fox News still doesn’t cover tax evasion by the wealthy. But now, millions know why.
Frequently Asked Questions
Why did Fox News refuse to air the interview with Rutger Bregman?
Fox News reportedly shelved the interview because Bregman’s critique directly challenged the network’s editorial focus on immigration and crime over economic inequality. Internal sources told The Guardian that segments questioning tax avoidance by the wealthy are routinely flagged as “too controversial” or “not aligned with audience expectations.” The network has never publicly explained its decision, but the timing — shortly after the Paradise Papers leak — suggests deliberate avoidance.
How does Bregman’s work connect to real-world policy changes?
Bregman’s advocacy for universal basic income has influenced pilot programs in Finland, Canada, and Kenya. The Mincome experiment in Manitoba showed that guaranteed income reduced poverty without reducing work — a finding now cited by the OECD. In 2023, the Netherlands launched a small-scale UBI trial in Utrecht, directly inspired by Bregman’s research. His ideas aren’t theoretical; they’re being tested in real communities.
What’s the financial impact of tax evasion by the wealthy?
The IRS estimates the U.S. loses $1 trillion annually due to tax evasion and avoidance by high-net-worth individuals and corporations. The OECD puts global losses at $427 billion from offshore havens alone. That’s enough to fund universal healthcare in 30 countries or eliminate extreme poverty worldwide twice over. Yet media coverage remains minimal — especially on outlets like Fox News.
Is Tucker Carlson’s reaction typical of conservative media?
Yes. When faced with systemic critiques — especially about wealth inequality — conservative media often resorts to personal attacks rather than engagement. Examples include Rush Limbaugh mocking Elizabeth Warren and Sean Hannity dismissing Piketty’s work as “Marxist fantasy.” The goal isn’t to debate data; it’s to discredit the messenger. Carlson’s outburst fits a well-documented pattern.
What is The School for Moral Ambition, and how is it funded?
The School for Moral Ambition is a Dutch non-profit founded by Rutger Bregman in 2025 to help professionals shift from career-driven ambition to purpose-driven impact. All proceeds from his book Moral Ambition fund its programs, including fellowships for economists, engineers, and educators working on climate justice and poverty reduction. It operates out of Utrecht and partners with universities across Europe.
Why is this interview still relevant in 2025?
Because the problem hasn’t changed. Media outlets still prioritize outrage over analysis, and tax avoidance by the rich remains largely invisible in mainstream coverage. With inflation, housing crises, and student debt crushing young people, the disconnect between what’s reported and what’s real is wider than ever. Bregman’s interview isn’t just history — it’s a mirror.